Curse

tasha · May 14, 2009, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

But it can be a nightmare money making machine, like the XTH taken to a new level, or a big Online Store with connections to direct character and account upgrades, done on a website instead of ingame itself just to support many more methods of payment (like Paypal).

You mean like the NCSoft site? If so, we already have it. If not, I'd expect this to be in NCSoft's realm rather than Anets. I'm curious as to how you could see the XTH being turned into a money spinner, although that could be an entirely different thread.

immortius · May 14, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Web-based auction house for GW items with a real money transaction fee? :P

Could be anything, I'll worry about it if it happens.

Longasc · May 14, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

I wonder if the future will bring us something that has already been introduced by Bethesda for their offline-RPGs, Oblivion and Fallout 3.

"DLC" - Downloadable Content.

So far the results make one cry.

Three packs have been released so far:

1. Operation Anchorage: Some bugs, very very short and linear, a ultra-powerful weapon and some extra goodies, armor and weapons.

2. The Pitt: Better story, also some new weapons and armors, but nothing like the Gauss Rifle of "OP" Anchorage (OP like overpowered...^^). Still not much bang for the buck.

3. Broken Steel - level 30, some more content. I am playing it right now and it seems to offer the best bang for the buck so far. The content delivered is still unpolished and again the player gets some over the top and some totally crap perks and weapons.

The price is around 8 EUR / 10$, you can get it over XBox LIVE stuff, you pay with "points" which roughly equal the prices I mentioned.

Sins of a Solar Empire also offers the micro-expansion "Entrenchment" for 10 bucks.

The delivered content is indeed "micro", and while 10 bucks are not that much, we pay quite a LOT, especially compared to the main program.

Fallout 3 has so much more to offer than all 3 DLCs together, which cost quite much. The same is true for Sins of a Solar Empire. I shelled out a lot of money for mine fields and starbases, that was it.

"Web services does not equal micro payments." - WRONG. At least not entirely correct.

Web services are not always about micro payment stuff, as Hypocryon mentioned. They already have their shop. But this does not mean that web services cannot be used for transactions.

We already have the XTH, the GW Wiki and stuff like that. Seems they are going the "Web 2.0" route and try to blend it into the game client.

I just wonder that people still have so much faith in ANet NOT screwing up, in regards to defining whats "OPTIONAL" or not. I say it again, I see storage not as "luxury" option, they are already borderline with that.

If we follow the notion that GW evolved, but also ran into a dead end and ended up as a convoluted mess of half-baken ideas it is even harder to understand that people are NOT concerned about the future of GW2.

Give "Free Realms" a try, and the word "free" gets an entirely new meaning... :>

MithranArkanere · May 14, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Xunlai Tournament House says hello to you.

If they go further with micropayments, they'll lose lots of players. But since the game runs with SQL, there are lot of things that can be done with web pages with less load than in-game.

Hm... first we'll see what they do, they already got pretty bad responses from many users when they added micropayments for appearance changes.

manager · May 14, 2009, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Somehow i doubt that the "pretty bad responses" they got from Guru about GW1 updates or features will have any weight on their business decisions for GW2.

Daesu · May 14, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If they go further with micropayments, they'll lose lots of players.

I have the opposite view, they dont have enough things in their shop for me to buy. Most of the stuff are not worth buying or you can get it elsewhere for a much cheaper price.

ANet is too afraid of players QQ to put special skins like voltaic spears or some of their best unique weapons/armor designs in their stores. This means the game is becoming more of a time sink for mere cosmetic rewards. This is also the reason why many of my gamer friends, with full time jobs, avoided playing MMOs like Guild Wars. You dont feel like you can ever be "on-par" with the kids who have no real life responsibilities.

This is why after playing 4 years, I am still working on my HoM which is why I probably wont be buying GW2 until I find the time to complete it. If I can buy tormented weapons in their stores, that would save me time. It is really hard trying to get a successful PUG for foundry.

LONGA · May 14, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

If it is anything that make life easier like weapons in Bonus misson Pack its ok because skins is not equal character strength.

But if its something like everlasting essence of celerity then things gonna gets ugly.Hardmode with something like that going to make people go hench and heroes more.

Longasc · May 14, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

This means the game is becoming more of a time sink for mere cosmetic rewards. This is also the reason why many of my gamer friends, with full time jobs, avoided playing MMOs like Guild Wars. You dont feel like you can ever be "on-par" with the kids who have no real life responsibilities.

This is an interesting notion, as they actually should love GW. No monthly fee, and you are easily on the same power level as other players.
OK, not when it comes to the PvE skills tied to title tracks... something else to discuss in this matter.

But in terms of weapons, I have a full set of STR/TAC Shields of the Wing and lots of Norn Shields in all possible +10 vs X variations for my Warriors, Paragons and Rangers.

There are pretty awesome skins out there that are not elite, and I do not get it how it discourages people from playing.

I also do not have an obsidian armor, I just do not have the patience to farm that many ectos for an armor, and I did not like the female Necro armor (I got the Vabbi instead).

Should you not rather ask ANet to remove tedious repetition and grind than asking to BUY destroyer/tormented weapons in the shop??????

Daesu · May 14, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

This is an interesting notion, as they actually should love GW. No monthly fee, and you are easily on the same power level as other players.
OK, not when it comes to the PvE skills tied to title tracks... something else to discuss in this matter.

But in terms of weapons, I have a full set of STR/TAC Shields of the Wing and lots of Norn Shields in all possible +10 vs X variations for my Warriors, Paragons and Rangers.

There are pretty awesome skins out there that are not elite, and I do not get it how it discourages people from playing.

I also do not have an obsidian armor, I just do not have the patience to farm that many ectos for an armor, and I did not like the female Necro armor (I got the Vabbi instead).

Should you not rather ask ANet to remove tedious repetition and grind than asking to BUY destroyer/tormented weapons in the shop??????

Well, my friends think that at least GW should have fewer grind than most other MMOs BUT if they ask me about it, I would honestly say there are real grinds within GW since Factions/NF.

PvE skills whose effectiveness is based on titles is a grind. Lightbringer/SS is a grind. Even getting your HoM ready is a grind. You need 11 destroyers/tormentors weapons and even though account-based HoM reduced that grind you still need 11 of those weapons per account.

Now, it is extremely difficult to find a PUG in DoA if you dont play one of the "required" class and even if you do, most PUGs fail there anyway. Destroyer weapons are expensive to make, so if I cant get my HoM ready, I am not ready for GW2 even if it is released right now.

If ANet can create a new class of Weapon X that can be displayed in HoM then put it for sale on their online store would make it easier for people to get ready for GW2. Otherwise good luck finding a PUG that can clear foundry. Or I would just have to farm granite slowly or spend huge amount of gold for all the required materials for destroyer weapons.

dusanyu · May 14, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

So far GW is adding micro payment for things that do not radically effect game play

Storage, name changes and Appearance changes are all superficial.

the most radical "micropayment thing they have added is the BMB adds its ability to provide a free q9 max weapon and even that is not a show stopper as the weapons are unmoded and a q9 max weapon can be gotten by anyone anyway.

i see arena net having pay for services that are attractive and yet not game braking or giving an unfair advantage on the pay docket

Daesu · May 14, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

And that is why I am ok with ANet selling weapon "skins", like Voltaic spear or tormentor's, in their online store but they seem to be too afraid of the player community to do that. Afterall they have already sold skins in the form of BMP. None of these weapons give an unfair advantage where the in-game mechanics is concerned.

They can reduce the grind for the weapon in HoM by either allowing MORE weapons to be displayed in HoM than just destroyers/tormentors. Or they can sell destroyers/tormentors in their online store.

ZenRgy · May 14, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

I wonder if the future will bring us something that has already been introduced by Bethesda for their offline-RPGs, Oblivion and Fallout 3.

"DLC" - Downloadable Content.

So far the results make one cry.

Three packs have been released so far:

1. Operation Anchorage: Some bugs, very very short and linear, a ultra-powerful weapon and some extra goodies, armor and weapons.

2. The Pitt: Better story, also some new weapons and armors, but nothing like the Gauss Rifle of "OP" Anchorage (OP like overpowered...^^). Still not much bang for the buck.

3. Broken Steel - level 30, some more content. I am playing it right now and it seems to offer the best bang for the buck so far. The content delivered is still unpolished and again the player gets some over the top and some totally crap perks and weapons.

And they're all full of bugs, especially Broken Steel.

I doubt NCsoft brings anything to the online store that breaks game balance, such as better weapons etc. Only aesthetic differences, maybe storage. Which doesn't bother me at all.

aapo · May 14, 2009, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Has ANet introduced items that are:

a) more powerful than those that can be obtained by "free" players" or
b) offer an advantage of feature otherwise unavailable?

The answer is no. Most of what they offer through their online stores are merely cosmetic in nature. Look at the BMP, do those weapons give higher damage than what can be obtained freely? Not really, but they have unique skins, so what? You can also buy a Pet unlock pack, but what advantage does that give you besides the cosmetic?

- True and that would be tragic mistake to imbalance game. Many people seem to ignore the fact that the game has strong social aspect. Your avatar represents something and your titles represent what you've done in the game. Think about would you want as a gamer to play a game where your character's looks represent only the amount of money you've spent on cash shops. Even today the line between personal achievements and powertraded goods is becoming hazy. Just because you have zaishen title doesn't mean you have anything to do with PvP, as you can pay your way to next ranks with ingame gold. Pets don't need to be raised anymore (gaming), as NPCs do that too - for a right price (farming). This alongside with messed up playbalance means that we're approaching point where ingame things don't represent anything, they don't have meaning in social sense.

You can call it convenience and skillful dodging of power creep, but like it or not it microtransactions will ruin social aspect of games. It's abysmal design that creators create games of grind and then offer some "shortcuts" with real life cash. This is the reason why Guild Wars remains my first and last MMO game I've bought.

Daesu · May 15, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- True and that would be tragic mistake to imbalance game. Many people seem to ignore the fact that the game has strong social aspect. Your avatar represents something and your titles represent what you've done in the game. Think about would you want as a gamer to play a game where your character's looks represent only the amount of money you've spent on cash shops. Even today the line between personal achievements and powertraded goods is becoming hazy. Just because you have zaishen title doesn't mean you have anything to do with PvP, as you can pay your way to next ranks with ingame gold. Pets don't need to be raised anymore (gaming), as NPCs do that too - for a right price (farming). This alongside with messed up playbalance means that we're approaching point where ingame things don't represent anything, they don't have meaning in social sense.

You can call it convenience and skillful dodging of power creep, but like it or not it microtransactions will ruin social aspect of games. It's abysmal design that creators create games of grind and then offer some "shortcuts" with real life cash. This is the reason why Guild Wars remains my first and last MMO game I've bought.

First of all, I wouldn't equate in-game gold with real world cash. They are not the same. It is wrong to buy in-game gold with money and I have never done that.

Even though you can practically buy the ZaiShen title with in-game gold, you still can't buy titles from the online store.

As for looks, they should be able to buy at least unique skins from the online store if they dont want to interfere with the game. Just like the BMP. If the skins are good, people would buy them rather than grind for them.

Grind is one thing, skill is something else. I shouldn't be able to buy PvP titles or any item that would give me an advantage in pvp from the online store. But PvE grind should be reduced OR provide another way out to play this game for the adults with full time jobs. Otherwise, this becomes a game for people with no jobs or no responsibilities and I dont feel right recommending GW to my gamer friends since they have told me that they hate the grind time sink. I can't say there is minimal grind in GW since it doesn't feel that way to me. And my gamer friends spend HUGE amount of money on their games compared to me and would rather spend than grind.

tasha · May 15, 2009, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

...Otherwise, this becomes a game for people with no jobs or no responsibilities and I dont feel right recommending GW to my gamer friends since they have told me that they hate the grind time sink. I can't say there is minimal grind in GW since it doesn't feel that way to me. And my gamer friends spend HUGE amount of money on their games compared to me and would rather spend than grind.

If they hate grind to the extent that is in Guild Wars, then I wonder if they're better off playing a mmo fps than an mmo rpg/cg. Left 4 Dead is good.

immortius · May 15, 2009, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Are you mad? Have you seen the grind in L4D? Beating every campaign in expert, killing 1000 infected with a chain gun, killing 52,000+ infected... the grind is endless.

manager · May 15, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

If they hate grinding, then they should stop playing MMO's. There's no possible way to have enough content to please everyone.